A fellow in my office plays simple stuff with a country strum. It's what floats his boat and good luck to him. He has a cheap Yamaha guitar in his office so he can bust it out early in the morning.
He has often invited me to pick it up and play, but when I try, man I can't play a damn thing! The action is awful, I can't fret chords cleanly and I generally blow anything I try to play on it.
I'm not trying to diss Yamaha here. They make some nice instruments.
My question is, have others experienced this phenomena? Is it common, or am I just a spoilt brat because I mortgaged my children to buy an expensive guitar very early in my learning?
Is this a problem I should work to overcome? Should I be able to pick up just about any guitar and play it reasonably well?, because I sure can't do that right now!
I have to stop and make adjustments in my playing to play a cheap guitar. Especially one with bad action. They are very difficult to play. Have you asked him why doesn't he get the action fixed? He may not even know its off.
Good question, Tony. The problem, much like you described with your friend's guitar, is that they have not been properly setup. Many inexpensive guitars can sound pretty good and are fun to play when they are setup properly. But honestly, when you can fly a flock of geese uder the strings at the 12th fret, I just won't waste my time with it. Those are 'Pawn Shop Guitars'!
AndyT wrote: I have to stop and make adjustments in my playing to play a cheap guitar. Especially one with bad action. They are very difficult to play. Have you asked him why doesn't he get the action fixed? He may not even know its off.
Good point Andy, I should tell him. This fellow is a nice guy, but he really doesn't seem very interested in improvement. He refuses to learn barres (for example) and just avoids songs with barres. I don't think he has changed his strings...ever. Part of the problem that prompted me to write was that if I say "Hey I'm not playing that guitar" I look a bit of a snob.
Bill, the image of birds flying under the frets made me smile.
Part of the problem that prompted me to write was that if I say "Hey I'm not playing that guitar" I look a bit of a snob.
Be a snob Tony go on I dare ya... Or take in your Taylor and show him how a guitar with a good set up sounds (Hmm alternatively borrow a Cole Clark to really show him a good set up), suggest a jam at lunch or morning tea or afternoon siesta !
Hey Chas. I won't bite at the Cole Clark comment! Honestly, I have tried them in a few local stores and they are not my cup of tea, which means nothing really. Same with Martin. The Taylor just "speaks" to me more so than anything I have tried to date. I'll say one thing about the CC, man that is good value for money. Solid built guitars at great price. Anyway, I digress.
I have played with him, but it's limiting because he plays everything with the country strum and I simply don't go much for country ballads. He's a good guy and has invited me to play with his band but the music they play leaves me cold. He has seen my good guitars and to be fair to him, the Yamaha he has at work he realises is a cheapo and he is generous in inviting anyone to pick it up and play it. What is frustrating for me is he often says "show me what you have been learning" and on his guitar I simply can't. I have taken to just sending him videos!
Unplayable cheep Guitars , So that's why I can't play my acoustic
Seriously ,Geese! I recon I could get an emu under mine. But its all I've got as up grading is still a long way off for me.I have thought about trying to adjust it myself but I just never seem to get around to having a go at it.
I know it is more difficult to play but it's not impossible,I believe you get used to what you've got and ya never know picking up a cheep guitar every now and then may even make you a better player, a bit like when you pick up an electric after playing an acoustic, if nothing else it will make you appreciate what you've got and you can always through it across the room if you get frustrated.
Then again maybe its a good excuse to buy a guitar for the office.
Cheers
Scott
Yes Tony, you're spoilt for life with the guitar you have! But you are so right, there is nothing worse than picking up a guitar which is hard to play. The definition of good guitar for me starts with ease of playing. Its enough to put anyone off playing if the equipment is not good. I feel the same way about rackets and make sure that when we have beginners or kids start playing tennis or squash that they have the very best (and expensive, if necessary) equipment as that first feel can be decisive (often they get horrible crap pushed into their hands first time). I've held a few high action guitars in my hands at times... they are just unplayable.
I remember being like your work mate... not wanting to play barre chords and fighting them for a long time. He just needs to see the pay-off at the end. But there again, if he's only in to country... it may never happen!
I guess Mr. Segovia doesn't give a damn!
- Les Paul answering an audience question (while playing with Segovia) about why he tuned his guitar after every song and Segovia didn't.
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tovo wrote: ...My question is, have others experienced this phenomena? Is it common, or am I just a spoilt brat because I mortgaged my children to buy an expensive guitar very early in my learning?
Is this a problem I should work to overcome? Should I be able to pick up just about any guitar and play it reasonably well?, because I sure can't do that right now!
Yes, I've experienced this. It is common. You are NOT spoiled. You should NOT work to overcome this. You should be able to play any guitar that feels "right" in you hands. If I cringe when I pick up a guitar to tryout, I put it back down without even attempting a strum.
i had a similar experience not long ago. A good friend of mine owns a cheap guitar that her mother gave her. She (my friend) used to play a little but with 2 kids and all the craziness of life, she doesn't play much anymore. I was looking at it one day and noticed how old her strings were, so I told her that I'd take the guitar, change her strings for her, tune it up and return it, and maybe she'd feel like playing again. I said I'd bring it back and show her just how nice her guitar can sound. So I changed the strings and got the guitar shined up all pretty and sat down to try playing Here Comes the Sun on it. Holy Cow! The action on it was so high that it took huge amounts of finger pressure to fret anything! It was insane! I couldn't play anything! I took it back to her and told her that if she wanted to keep the guitar, she should see about having the set up on it changed, and explained the situation with the action. She said, "Oh! I guess that's why it always hurt so much when I tried to play!" Yeah! Having a cheap guitar could deter anyone from really playing. That said, there are plenty of inexpensive, good guitars out there. You don't have to pay thousands of dollars for a decent, easy-to-play, introductory guitar.
suziko wrote: ...... Having a cheap guitar could deter anyone from really playing. That said, there are plenty of inexpensive, good guitars out there. You don't have to pay thousands of dollars for a decent, easy-to-play, introductory guitar.
Suzi
I'm glad you mentioned that Suzi.
I recently bought an *ahem* inexpensive Yamaha despite the fact that walking into the shop I swore I wouldn't buy a cheapo guitar. However after playing dozens of guitars and considering I really wanted something that was comfortable, playable and could sit on a nearby stand so I could pick it up whenever the spirit moved me, I ended up walking out with a Yamaha. It just felt right. This is all while I am trying to decide how to go about having the neck reset on a vintage D'Angelico which is proving to be an ordeal... but that's another story. In any event I was surprised at how well setup this guitar was right out of the box. I did change the strings after the first few weeks because I wasn't happy with whatever was on there. It wasn't until just this weekend while practicing that &*%$# arpeggio intro for In A Gadda Da Vida that I noticed I had a bit of a problem up around the 17th fret (ground on which I rarely tread) ... a quarter turn on the truss rod to add some relief to the neck solved that. My point is that I not only agree but want to emphasize that a good setup is essential despite the value of the guitar. I know and have known many accomplished musicians who could only dream of owning a Martin or a Taylor or a Gibson. The common thing is they all realize the importance of a guitars setup. So no Tony ... this is not a problem you should have to overcome. You're also not spoiled because you invested in an expensive guitar. Consider yourself fortunate and dedicated. If your colleague is happy with what he has and how he plays what he plays, all the power to him. I just don't think you should expect to be able to play the way you like given the limitations of his instrument ...
Sorry if that began to resembled a rant, it wasn't intended as such
All I have is a "cheap guitar" it is a Sigma, Martin's import from Korea. When I got it years ago, it was terrible, high action as many of you have mentioned and I fought with it until, playing with friends they enlightened me and I adjusted the neck put on some Elixer ultra thin strings and it is very playable and sounds pretty good, actually. College for my kids and a wedding in the near future, keep putting my purchase of a better guitar off time and time again. I must say that in the last year or so while learning new songs on TG, and working through the acoustic lessons, I have gained an appreciation on finer instruments. I can go into the mega stores and try out a variety of guitars and really discern the differences, and pick out the likes and dislikes of the different brands. Some day, hopefully sooner than later, I'll upgrade, but until then. I'm learning and having fun with my cheap guitar. I planned an extra day on and upcoming business trip to CA and plan to take a tour of the Taylor factory!
I sure realise that not everyone can afford to buy an expensive instrument and certainly didn't mean to disparage anyone just in case anyone thought that. There is a very real difference between budget guitars and more expensive models in terms of playability. It would be nice to pick up any guitar and get a tune from it, but I have found I can't achieve that. That was the purpose of my thread, i.e. to discuss playability in terms of the budget guitars.
There are budget guitars and then there are real el cheapo budget guitars... The difference I have found is if it adjustable without major luthiery, you know replace Nut saddle strings has a truss rod that kind of thing. I have played guitars that weren't adjustable and were terrible to play, then I've seen el cheapos that could be adjusted (and I usually did) and were very playable, I have also seen higher end guitars generally not looked after that were unplayable. So the problem in my experience has not always been the initial cost of guitar. IN NZ you can buy a semi decent Ashton dread guitar originally an Aussie outfit and they are fully adjustable and are very cheap but playable. My work guitar is an old (1987) Epiphone PR400 and its laminated but fully adjustable in all senses and is very nice to the ear. The new release of the same model is fully adjustable and whilst not as good quality as my 87 its eminently playable and costs around $400NZ.
I also bought my step daughter an el cheapo Johnson dread cutaway, again laminated but hey it does the job and its adjustable that cost $100NZ
I learned a very humbling lesson once about cheap guitars. When I was first learning to play, I had a cheap one. I think I paid $10 - $20 for it. The action was high and it sounded like gravel on a tin roof. By all standards, it was horrible. Even a bad comedian could do an hour long routine on how bad it was (“That guitar was sooooooo bad . . . . . . “ “How bad was it?” . . . . . . . ).
So it’s the early 70s, and I’m 14 or 15 years old and going to my very first organized open jam session at the local music store. There’s a circle of guys in the front of the store playing some of the hottest bluegrass licks I had heard. Holy Crap! Waaaaaaaaay out of my league! I thought I walked in on a practice session or store performance of some kind, but when the music stopped, they told me to get out my guitar and join in.
Just the thought of having the opportunity of standing in this circle holding a guitar without even playing a note made me dizzy. When the guitar came out, they all checked it out and asked how I liked it. I instantly started talking about its faults. Action’s too high, doesn’t sound too good, etc. making all kinds of excuses ahead of time. One of the guys (the guy playing banjo . . . go figure) asked if he could see it, and I handed it over. He quickly checked it out top to bottom and then launched into one of the best renditions of Mr. Saturday Night that I have ever heard complete with vocals and some licks played above the 12th fret. All that using my piece of garbage guitar. He just smiled and handed it back to me.
Lesson: It ain’t the guitar.
So, Tony, next time you go into work you might want to try this with your friend's guitar:
Take a capo and tuner with you. Use the tuner to tune it accurately, capo at the second or third fret, and then play a simple three chord song on that crappy guitar. It should be much easier and I’ll bet you’ll do fine.
When we go into music stores, it’s fun to play the best instruments. But here’s a thought . . . . you might try to play the worst one (cheapest?) to see how good you really are. . . . . . wouldn’t that be weird? And this may be a good place to use an old Cantonese (?) saying that I learned the other day that roughly translates to "Ride the cow, look for the horse". To me, this means - do the best with what you've got, and upgrade when you can.
Hope this all makes sense . . . . . I might have had too much coffee today.
Hey Hydro. Cool story. That's very much what I was getting at. Can a really good player get a great tune out of a crappy guitar? You say yes. Sure many would argue with plenty of logic that life is too short for crappy guitars....I have that philosophy with coffee I must say, but it would be nice to confidently pick up anything and play it like you mean it. Thanks for taking that time man.
I have to admit that most of the steelstring-guitars I've owned were not that good... (I can't belíeve I was able to play them )...but I just didn't notice it since I didn't know better... I remember, my last one, not thát long ago was also quite hard to play.. A friend of mine, who plays the guitar very well, played on it and started complaining about it and I actually got irritated, haha ('who are you to burn down my guitar?!' )! Later I finally bought myself a decent guitar and ever since when I play on a 'cheap' one, then I réally know what he meant!....it can be done, but it's damned annoying...
And it's true, you don't need to spend a lot of money for a good guitar, if I had that kind of money that Brad (Rapsidy) wants to spend on his new guitar, haha, I would buy myself at léast three new guitars!
But I get what you mean Tony, you just want to be able to play on any guitar...well Hydromans suggestions are good ones...maybe play that particular guitar more often, I am sure you wíll be able to play it eventually. But if you don't care, then it's really not something that you should overcome, why on earth should you?!
Cheers
Ness
coomba wrote: I know it is more difficult to play but it's not impossible,I believe you get used to what you've got and ya never know picking up a cheep guitar every now and then may even make you a better player, a bit like when you pick up an electric after playing an acoustic, if nothing else it will make you appreciate what you've got Cheers
Scott
I learned to play on a Harmony guitar that had an action about an inch over the 12th fret. Hell, I didn't know any better. I played what I had. Clearly, it didn't make me a better player. My Harmony wouldn't even make good firewood!
I am firmly of the opinion that poor actions drive more potential players away from the guitar than any other reason (except not learning songs they know and want to play). If it hurts to play many people will just give up.
I don't see any advantage learning to play a guitar with a poor action. Better yet, kindly suggest where your friend can take his guitar to get it set up. It could make a world of difference to him and his musical journey.
Finally, remember that most guitar makers ship their guitars with high actions. If they didn't, they would buzz and many people get really turned off by buzzing. More so than a high action. Most players, with some experience, realize that virtually all guitars will need an initial setup.
“Among God's creatures two, the dog and the guitar, have taken all the sizes and all the shapes, in order not be separated from the man”
- Andre Segovia
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But you are so right, there is nothing worse than picking up a guitar which is hard to play. The definition of good guitar for me starts with ease of playing. Its enough to put anyone off playing if the equipment is not good. I feel the same way about rackets and make sure that when we have beginners or kids start playing tennis or squash that they have the very best (and expensive, if necessary) equipment as that first feel can be decisive (often they get horrible crap pushed into their hands first time). I've held a few high action guitars in my hands at times... they are just unplayable. 
)...but I just didn't notice it since I didn't know better... I remember, my last one, not thát long ago was also quite hard to play.. A friend of mine, who plays the guitar very well, played on it and started complaining about it and I actually got irritated, haha ('who are you to burn down my guitar?!' 
)! Later I finally bought myself a decent guitar and ever since when I play on a 'cheap' one, then I réally know what he meant!....it can be done, but it's damned annoying...
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